7 years if you kill your spouse, 10 years if you abuse a terrorist.

[Sparrowhawk]

Most people that kill their spouse in America receive a 7 year sentence. Some get out early for good behaviour. But if you abuse an enemy soldeir during war time you get 10 years in prison. Something is wrong with this type of blind justice.

---

Abu Ghraib guard draws 10-year term


By Adam Tanner
REUTERS NEWS AGENCY


Army Spc. Charles Graner, seen arriving at military court in Fort Hood, Texas, yesterday, was sentenced to 10 years in prison for mistreating prisoners at Iraq''s Abu Ghraib prison

FORT HOOD, Texas — A military jury yesterday sentenced Army Spc. Charles Graner to 10 years in prison for his leading role in the 2003 Abu Ghraib torture of Iraqi prisoners, five years less than the maximum sentence possible.

The sentencing at a central Texas military base came a day after a jury found Graner guilty on 10 counts related to the abuses, many of which were documented in photographs that included naked prisoners stacked into a pyramid and being forced to masturbate.

Graner showed no reaction when the sentence was read and appeared calm before he was taken away. Asked if he regretted abusing the prisoners, Graner paused, then said: "Maybe you missed that there's a war on. Bad things happen in war.

"Apparently, I followed an illegal order."

In his first public remarks on the scandal earlier in the day, Graner told the 10 jurors he had acted wrongly, but said he complained repeatedly to superiors and was told to continue the rough treatment.

In 2½ hours of testimony at the sentencing hearing, Graner smiled from time to time and spoke confidently as he detailed his role in the scandal that delivered a powerful blow to the U.S. image abroad.

"I didn't enjoy anything I did there. A lot of it was wrong. A lot of it was criminal," said Graner, 36, the first soldier to go on trial in the abuse case.

The former Pennsylvania prison guard was convicted on charges including conspiracy, assault and indecent acts.

"The enemy needs rallying points," prosecutor Maj. Michael Holley said in arguing for the maximum 15-year penalty. "The accused has provided so much in that regard."

Graner also received a dishonorable discharge and forfeiture of all pay and allowances.

Graner, seen grinning in photos of abuses such as stacking a pyramid of naked Iraqi detainees, said gallows humor was the only way to deal with the harsh environment at Abu Ghraib, once Saddam Hussein's most notorious prison.

"There was a lot of things that we did that were so screwed up, if we didn't look at them as funny then there was no way to deal with it," he said. "When I knew someone would take a picture, I'd be smiling. That's the only explanation I have."

In his statement to the jury asking that he be given another chance as a soldier, Graner did not discuss the most notorious episodes during his time there, such as when he directed the human pyramid or put a leash on a naked prisoner.

Graner said he complained repeatedly to superiors about the rough treatment he says he was forced to mete out to prisoners.
"We were not treating prisoners the way we were supposed to, so I complained about it," he said. "I never stopped complaining."

Graner named several higher-ranking officials to whom he complained about the conditions or treatment forced upon the prisoners, such as sleep deprivation and forced eating cycles. They told him to "follow your order; charge on."
"Like all good soldiers, or bad little soldiers, it was 'right on, sir.' We went back."

Four others have reached plea bargains in the case.
During the court-martial, prosecutors provided evidence, including graphic videos and photos, that Graner forced seven Iraqi prisoners to stack themselves into a naked human pyramid and later posed for photos before them. On another occasion, he photographed his lover, Pfc. Lynndie England, holding a leash he put around the neck of a naked prisoner.

Witnesses described how Graner had hit prisoners, in one case knocking one out before piling him into the naked human pyramid.

Graner said he was troubled by the public perception of his character. "I've been bad-mouthed about my religion — that I'm not a good Christian," he said.

In a Friday night court session, his parents, Charles and Irma Graner of Pittsburgh, described their son as a good boy and good father to his two children.

"He's not the monster he's being made out to be," Mrs. Graner told the jury. "In my eyes, he'll always be a hero."

[thedrifter]

Something is wrong with this type of blind justice.

Do have to agree on that one Cook....

Ellie

[Toby M]

Government has to show our "Muslim" brothers that we have their best interests at heart. In this case, justice was indeed blind...

[ivalis]

This individual (he certainly is no soldier) deserves the 10 yrs. HOw can a staff NCO be so stupid? He hurt the war effort.

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by ivalis
This individual (he certainly is no soldier) deserves the 10 yrs. HOw can a staff NCO be so stupid? He hurt the war effort.

He hurt the war effort?

How?

Muslims have been mistreating, abusing their young boys, women and relatives for years and have done greater things to themselves in the eyes of the world and now you say, this soldier," hurts the war effort?


If a muslim women is raped, by her relatives, she is killed. If she kils her attacker, she is killed.

Muslim boys are sexually abused often, and told not to say anything because its unmanly?


and now, they are outraged because a few handfuls of their combattants are abused in jail, in prison.

What about the beheading they have done. This is nothing more then a liberal witch hunt, looking for anything to make us look bad in this war....


The soldier should have be-headed the prisoner.... or if he had said, that the prisoner had spoken ill of the soldiers sister, so he mistreated the prisoner, then that would have been accepted to the Muslims, for the soldier to have even killed the prisoner for such words, would have been acceptable.

They are a backwards people, a foolish people... humm,





I think Lawerence of Arabia already said that... LOL

[ivalis]

We hurt the war effort by treating the Iraqi's the same way as Saddam in the same prison he used. Liberators, I don't think so.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

[airframesguru]

Cook,

This is BS, or is it PC?

Enemys are enemy's regardles. I know we are held to a higher standard. That is what make us who we are, but come on man, when the dust settles it is us and them. Why the game sir? Did I miss something?? PM me if I did. Sure the guy did things, but there was MI involved, right....

Not after you sir, just gets my goat to see this...

Semper Fi, do or die, USMC.

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by ivalis
We hurt the war effort by treating the Iraqi's the same way as Saddam in the same prison he used. Liberators, I don't think so.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

From the Iraqi that still feels pain in his knees from the torture they endured in one of Saddam Hussein's prisons. "We are trying to write the future of Iraq," he said by voting in the up coming election. A liberty he will enjoy because of the American presence in Iraq.



The big question about the abuse in Iraq by American soldiers was never asked.

Why the abuse?

The answer was simple; to obtain information to save innocent lives and or our military soldiers lives. The bad cop good cop does not work with the Muslim terrorist, they only understand strength and determination, anything else is seen as weakness on our part.


Should we have used another prison?

There are three main prisons in Iraq; Saddam tortured his enemies in all of them.

Maybe we should have built one for them where it would be safe enough for Martha Stewart to be housed?



This is war! The gooksMuslims trying to kill Americans, were taken prisoners only because our bullets missed them. They should have been killed.

There is no Geneva Convention agreement signed between Muslim terrorist and America or the UN for that matter. They have no honor in how they treat our prisoners. They cut off American servicemen and civilians head, mutilate and burn their bodies and the story end sup on page six of most newspapers.

The same mentality prevailing in the mind of those prisoners was present in the terrorist that struck the twin towers. They have no hesitation in seeking out innocent civilians to kill for political purposes.

The same as Saddam Hussein?

Get real read what he did to his prisoners!!!

Where are the 600 missing Kuwaitis Saddam held in that same prison? They were tortured and then killed. We abused them? LOL


Liberators

Soldiers stationed in Iraq aren't allowed to fly the U.S flag or state flags. If we fly the U.S. flag, we are seen as occupiers, not liberators.


If I remember right, the last time Iraq citizens got to vote, there was a gun pointed at their heads and over 100% voted for Saddam Hussein as their president. Now, they have a choice they have been liberated to make that choice and this time the terrorist gun is trying to prevent them from casting that vote that represents liberty and freedom...

Torture?

Torture should be used in order to prevent a major loss of American as well as Iraqi lives, if we knew an individual had information concerning an attack on American civilians or our military what would you do to prevent that attack?

Torture the enemy soldier to get that information or just allow innocent civilians and our military men to get killed?

[Namvet67]

Got to go with Sparrowhawk on this one.

[irizavrima]

all i could say is this...dont beat your wife! dont beat up prisoners! you speak of unfair justice, but justice is also about your outlook on others. the way you treat a person can be seen differently from judge to judge.

[10thzodiac]

US Army Lt William Calley was convicted in 1971 of premeditated murder in ordering the shootings and initially sentenced to life in prison; two days later, however, President Richard Nixon ordered him released from prison, pending appeal of his sentence. Calley served 3½ years of house arrest in his quarters at Fort Benning, Georgia, and was then ordered freed by Federal Judge J Robert Elliot. Calley claimed he was following orders from his captain, Ernest Medina; Medina denied giving the orders and was acquitted at a separate trial. Most of the soldiers involved in the My Lai incident were no longer enlisted. Of the 26 men initially charged, Lt Calley's was the only conviction. The entire episode inspired what is known today as a Medina standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

[SkilletsUSMC]

I gotta throw in my 2 cents here.

What happened to the detainees at Abu Ghraib wasnt tourture. It was HAZING.

It may be hard to stomach, but our own fellow Marines have done much of the same type of things to their own "boot" Marine brothers.

Im not saying its all fine and dandy, but what happend there seems kinda vanilla compared to what I think of as tourture. Putting bamboo up fingernails and using bolt cutters to cut off fingers is touture. Not the naked pyramid. One of my buddies who moved to my Battalion came from 29 stumps with some pretty bad stories. Makes the Abu G look kind of lame.

[10thzodiac]

I gotta throw in my 2 cents here.

What happened to the detainees at Abu Ghraib wasnt tourture. It was HAZING.

It may be hard to stomach, but our own fellow Marines have done much of the same type of things to their own "boot" Marine brothers.

Im not saying its all fine and dandy, but what happend there seems kinda vanilla compared to what I think of as tourture. Putting bamboo up fingernails and using bolt cutters to cut off fingers is touture. Not the naked pyramid. One of my buddies who moved to my Battalion came from 29 stumps with some pretty bad stories. Makes the Abu G look kind of lame.

My DI would of made those Abu Grav dog-faces look like pre-kindergardeners. Now, he was a bad AZZ MOTHER FVCKER, and he fired his gun too

[drumcorpssnare]

Sparrowhawk- Thanks for the mention of T.E. Lawrence! He was my boyhood hero. My favorite quote by him in the movie, and he DID really say it...was, "NO PRISONERS!!!"

I believe he was right.

drumcorpssnare

[10thzodiac]

Sparrowhawk- Thanks for the mention of T.E. Lawrence! He was my boyhood hero. My favorite quote by him in the movie, and he DID really say it...was, "NO PRISONERS!!!"

I believe he was right.

drumcorpssnare

Mark, checkmate ! Custer said it June 25, 1876 at the Battle of the "Little Bighorn"

"Remember men, take no Prisoners" ~ George Armstrong Custer



My uncle (army) was there and that's what he told me

SF
10thz